Brief Note from the Indian in the Cupboard

I am going in and out of enclosure this week, so I feel a bit like the cowboy and Indian in The Indian in the Cupboard. It is SO WEIRD being in for prayer and other things and coming out for Net access and meeting people.

I may skip the Net access over the Triduum.  So, if you do not hear from me, it just means I am really being quiet.

But, if you think a monastery is a quiet place, you need to stay for a while. So many visitors and the phone rings off the hook, as well as the door bell ringing almost as much.

Portresses are the example of patience.

A Peter Paul Rubens Crucifixion: Wednesday in Holy Week

Talk by Ex-Press Secretary to the Pope

Fr. Guillermo Marco, ex-press officer for eight years to the Pope, gave a talk at Tyburn Convent in London, and these are notes from that talk. This was on March 26^th, 2013. I have tried to keep the exact vocabulary of Father Marco, who gave the talk mostly in English. Any editorial notes by me are in parentheses. I am merely reporting on this talk as exactly as I can. The text was approved by an associate of his. Some of this information is not new to readers of the Internet or news, but as news is restricted in the enclosure, much of this was new to the nuns at Tyburn.

The vocabulary reflects that of Fr. Marco. Most is a paraphrase or close to exact notes taken during the talk.

The Pope was born in Buenos Aires and studied science. He went to seminary in Buenos Aires, where the Jesuits were in charge and decided to be a Jesuit.

John Paul II made him bishop when he was a professor.

At 37, he was made superior on his congregation. He was very young and these were difficult years for the Church, after Vatican II. Priests were making political choices rather than religious choices.

An order from the General (of the Jesuits) in Rome indicated that he wanted priests who were religious not politicians. (This was a reaction against Liberation Theology.) The Pope loves working with the poor, but he is not political. The Argentinian government was not in support of the Catholic Church, but looking out for leftist priests and nuns to imprison.Two priests were working hard in the poor areas, and were moving to another area, and owing obedience to the religious, they did not want to so left the Jesuits.

"If you go out of the Jesuit Company, I cannot protect you", the superior said. They did, however. Two months later, the two priests were taken to an illegal jail; the Pope was looking for the priests, and then the two priests were made free. The Pope was not a collaborator of the territorial government, but did get these priests free. There is confusion on this in the media, who wants to show the Pope as a collaborator. 

There are lies that he was a collaborator.The photo shopped photo which is on line is not true, stated Fr. Marco. (I am not familiar with this photo.)

The Pope was novice master of the Jesuit order, and he spent two months in Germany. When he came back to Argentina, his superior put him in the interior of the country only saying Mass and hearing confessions—He became Provincial Superior in 1973. The Pope told his friends that he thought he would end his life in the remote area. Apparently, according to Fr. Marco, Jesuits have to say no if Pope asks them to be bishop; however, the Cardinal told him to be bishop, he was not consulted but told 1992, to be bishop of Buenos Aires.

It is a very big city, four million, with four more million coming in for work (eight million), and no one knew him,. There are six bishops in the diocese of Buenos Aires; Cardinal Antonio Quarracino, Archbishop of Buenos Aires, who consecrated Bergoglio Bishop, was very important in this story; the Cardinal asked the Pope to make Bergoglio to be his successor.

Cardinal Quarrancino planned this, stated Fr. Marco. Otherwise, he would have been in a smaller diocese, as most of the auxiliaries would have been on the appointment of a new Cardinal.

So, this was unusual. He had a meteoric rise in the Church. Fr. Marco said this was all in God's Plan.

When Cardinal Bergoglio came to Rome for the conclave, he came with a return ticket. He is 76, and he was ready to resign as bishop when he returned. He would have been retired on his return to Argentina. Someone who knew him said that his election as Pope has made him younger and more energetic, as if energized by the Holy Spirit.

This is important, said Fr. Marco. He went to Rome with a little bag. "And he will never go back to his little room. He will not see his family in their place…his entire life belongs to the Church."

"I first knew him when he became bishop. He always asked every person he met to pray for him."

Fr. Marco asked that we would pray for the Pope daily, here in the convent.

He needs prayer, said Fr Marco. However, the priest said that the Pope is a “prayer-man” in his interior life.

"He never goes out at night and goes to bed at nine and gets up at four or five to get up and pray. He has done this his entire life." Fr. Marco was very clear in his description of the Pope's dedication to prayer.

"He never decides anything unless he prays first. If he is going to decide something, he says that he needs to pray first. He refers all things to prayer. This is his heart."

Fr. Marco, who is not a Jesuit, added something interesting. "The other thing is that the Jesuits have very clever thinking, but they only say what appeals or refers to you. One never knows what they are really thinking." (Interesting.)

"My job with him, I always had a job with communications, and when he became Archbishop, he asked me, because he was nervous to meet with the media."

Fr. Marco described a Cardinal who worked with others in consultations. "His humility indicates that he states he does not know everything. He worked with a lot of persons in Buenos Aires because he is humble and wanted input."

As to the Pope's pastoral style, (which we have seen in the news), Fr. Marco noted that the Pope said as Cardinal, that  "we have to go and find the lost lamb and not stay inside the Church (building)."

Fr. Marco shared that he works in the public university, and he had to go to the world which does not believe in God.

"We have missionaries in the railway Stations, and in the city centers, in the plazas—" He added an interesting comment on the secular world. "The majority of the population does not ask the question of what is the essence of life. First, we have to motivate the questions of God. We have the answers, but the persons do not want to receive the answers, so we have to motivate them."

On the Pope's obviously different way of relating as Pope, Fr. Marco said this, "Pope Francis presents himself as the Bishop of Rome. He does not use the title Pope as he wants to relate to the people of Rome. 

He is very deliberate in his actions. He does not act on his feelings." (This is very interesting.)

"He thinks about what he does before acting." (Those of us watching him thought he looked quite spontaneous, but this is not true).

Fr. Marco indicated that the Pope wants our prayers, just as he did when he was Cardinal.

"He wants all the prayers of the Church, which is the job of the entire Church."

As to his name, the priest told the nuns what we have read in the news, "He said immediately when elected, 'Do not forget the poor.' He took the name Francis for this reason. He also took the name because of Francis being a man of peace; also because Francis is the patron saint of the environment." Fr. Marco was very clear on these points.

The ex-press secretary also noted that Francis was involved in the re-formation of the Church and that the Pope wanted Francis' name also for this reason. As to change in the Church, Fr. Marco noted this, "The Pope wants us to change first. He chooses simple things, such as a plain metal cross, because if one wears a gold cross in BA, it would be stolen immediately.He did not use his chauffeur and car", (as we know, he took the metro and bus). Fr. Marco stressed through-out his talk that the Pope has a preferential regard for the poor.

"He did not want to be separated from the people. He never made an apology to the rich for the poor. He is very near the poor."

"The poor," the Pope said, "are very near God."

The poor will teach us about God, added Fr. Marco.  The Pope has many short stories about the poor, which have influenced his life. Father shared a few of these.

Asked what the people of Argentina thought of the Pope, Fr. Marco responded, "The people of Argentina are being moved by what Pope Francis is saying in Rome. Two Jewish men were interviewed by the press who said they liked this Pope." The Argentinians ignored the Cardinal when he was in his country. Fr. Marco said, referring to the Scripture passage, that a prophet is not accepted in his own town. But, now that he is Pope, the people have changed and are now paying attention to him according to Fr. Marco. The Argentinians are following his actions in Rome.

Father Marco said we are entering in to a good time for the Church, and we need to pray a lot. He replied to another question regarding ecumenism that it was easier to be ecumenical in Argentina than in Europe.

Fr. Marco and the Pope were involved in an ecumenical group in Argentina, where it is easier to have these groups. So, the visit of the Patriarch Bartholomew I of Constantinople  was an extension of this. The meetings in Argentina are not theological dialogues, but just getting to know each other, noted the priest. When the Patriarch was in Rome, the Pope said that he was glad “Andrew” was here, the brother of Peter. The Pope also was responsible for contacting the head rabbi of Rome, with a personal letter to him. "He is very kind," said Fr. Marco, "to all who come near him."

Fr. Marco said the Pope is not the same person but has changed since he has been elected Pope. (This is very interesting.) He said he is full of the Holy Spirit.

Mother General of Tyburn,  Mother Mary Xavier McMonagle, brought up the quotation of Blessed John Paul II that the future of the Church was in Latin America. She was referring to the Pueblo Conference. Fr. Marco noted that the Latin American experience is different as a new country. (Here is a link to that Conference.)

Fr. Marco said that the Pope is like a common priest. He is still in the conclave room and not in the Papal Apartments. He will want to stay there and he is near the door, said Fr. Marco. (Laughter).

Mother General brought up the Mass in the prison on Holy Thursday. Mother General wanted to know if there were going to be consequences of this decision. Fr. Marco had an interesting insight into this : "In Buenos Aries there are six bishops, and so there were enough bishops to have Mass in the Cathedral and the Pope then decided to have Mass in a prison. He did not want journalists there when he did that in Argentina."

He had to be told by his press secretary, (Fr. Marco), not to put his light under a bushel, and therefore, give good example. 

At one Holy Thursday Mass, the Pope, as bishop, washed the feet of all the new baby boys of the poor. And, this photo was published in a discussion against abortion in Argentina. (I shall try and find the photo.)

The journalists in Argentina liked this. Fr. Marco said the Pope will do lots of things like this. Mother General pointed out that Blessed John Paul II also visited a prison, especially in the visit the man who shot him .  Mother also noted that Jesus spent the night in prison and was there during the night on Holy Thursday.

As Fr. Marco noted, we are in the age of the photo and the sound bite. So, the Pope uses little phrases of the Gospel in his talks as Pope. He is also aware of significant actions.

At the Mass at St. Peter, there was a representative of the people of the rubbish, the scavengers of Argentina, whom the Pope had visited when in Argentina.

As Cardinal, he was walking in his red robes and Fr. Marco wondered at this walking about in Rome before the conclave. Fr. Marco said Rome is the place where one can wear red without being noticed.

(Excuse any errors, as this was done on the spot.)

This week in the life of a blogger--wonderful things come to those who wait on the Lord

This week, until Easter Monday, I am partially in enclosure at Tyburn and will not be able to blog everyday. It is a wonderful experience singing the hours with the good nuns.

Pray for me.

However, I shall try and do two posts. One is about a talk I am attending is by Father Guillermo Marco, who worked with Pope Francis for years in Argentina. He is going to talk this morning about the Pope. I have permission to take copious notes. You shall "hear" the talk.

And, I want you all to pray for a miracle by going to this website. I have met Baroness Rosario of the Montbard family, who is connected with the House of Ephesus project. Her husband's family is related to St. Bernard of Clairvaux from his mother's side, the Blessed Aleth of Montbard.  Anyone in Europe or the UK who is interested in a presentation on this saint and the Blessed Virgin's House in Ephesus, please ask for a talk.

There are international prayer cards.

Sr. Marie De Mandat-Grancey Foundation
P.O.Box 275
Cold Spring Harbor, NY 11724 USA 

http://srmarie-lorraine.blogspot.co.uk/

Another David Jones Crucifixion: Tuesday in Holy Week

A reminder from The Record.com

On Christmas Day in 1969, a little known German theologian outlined his own assessment on the future of the Catholic Church during a radio broadcast.

Mankind was at a turning point in history, he said, and the Church was fighting against a force which intended to annihilate it definitively. The theologian’s name was Joseph Ratzinger.

He predicted that the Body of Christ on earth would be undermined by the temptation to reduce priests to social workers and the Church’s work to a mere political presence.

During his speech, which came shortly after the socially and morally revolutionary tumult of 1968, while the ramifications of Vatican II were emerging and secular influences were fervently desiring to “liberate” themselves from the “shackles” of religious and social institutions, Ratzinger said, “From today’s crisis will emerge a Church that will have lost a great deal”.

Structures that had been built in times of prosperity would be lost and numbers would decrease, he stated; he Church would “pretty much have to start all over again”.

Ratzinger, however, then suggested “when all the suffering is past, a great power will emerge from a more spiritual and simple Church”.

He believed there would be small groups and movements arising and a minority who would make faith central to experience.

“It will be poor and will become the Church of the destitute”, he said.

Not my America

http://global.christianpost.com/news/fla-professor-makes-class-trample-on-jesus-name-suspends-student-who-refused-92445/

For those parents of big Catholic families

Today, I want to write a tribute to all those neighbors, fellow parishioners  and friends who followed God's Plan for their families and did not contracept. I want to honor my parents and all those of their generation who had wonderful, large Catholic families.

Many of my friends have six, eight, ten, eleven or more children.

God bless those parents.

I have to honor them for choosing a lower standard of living than their Protestants neighbors who moved out of the old houses into the really nice ones with their 2.5 kids.

I want to praise these Catholic parents for not having vacations in order to home school or save money for expensive private Catholic education.

I want to tell the world how great is the responsibility to educate children in the Faith and praise those who did so.

And are doing so....

We have been persecuted for such. Some of my friends have been criticized publicly in grocery stores and even in Church for having large families.

Some of us were severely criticized for home schooling back in the late '80s, '90s and even into the 2000s.

I honor you, .pro-life Catholics. God bless you all, always and in every way

Superb comment from Steveaz on Sultan Knish

http://sultanknish.blogspot.ca/2013/03/night-falls-on-civilization.html

So good, I had to replicate it here.


Well, as usual, as we Yanks were distracted by China's potential pathologies, we failed to notice our own. [This is anecdotal, so take it with a grain of salt, but...] A majority of my acquaintances who work in academe (all "liberals) were single children. 

They cannot hide it either. Many reveal in their political views and debating styles that they have never contended with any sibling for Legos, parental attention nor mundane chores. And they seem unaware that their liberal campaigns for illusory things such as "sustainability" and "world peace" are rote manifestations of their single-child experience.

As America digests its own poison-pill generation of spoilt, single children cum adults, it should rile no one to state the obvious: America's citizenry are the managed wards of our own arrogant, spoilt "Emperors." 

Simply sample the biographies of our current ruling class. Obama is this generation's icon: globe-trotting, wealthy, doted-on, and without competition in the family! 

Some properly derogate this generation by calling it the "Me-Generation." Others patronize this cadre and rebel at crude categorization of it, preferring to flatter it with labels like "Creative," "modern," and "Taste-Makers."

No matter the label we use to identify this trend, it is what it is. And it'd like to replicate itself of course to form another first-person pronoun hyphenated generation to govern the besotted masses for the century ahead. 

To the spoilt, urban prograssive, Kids from big "fly-over" families are drole and tacky. They aren't easily cowed by external scolds and peer pressures, and they're wake-up to the games adversaries like to play, like deliberate dishonesty, proxy moves and brown-nosing. In short, if you're the third son in a Kansas family with 4 other siblings, two of them sisters, then you are immunized against the Prog's campusing techniques.

But "Little Emperors," not so much. They're nubile, malleable little princes and princesses, hungry to strive any 'attagirl' or confirmation of their uncontested merits, greater beauty or smarts. And being untested entrants to the Progs' series' of artificial societies, they suffer from performance anxiety. The spoilt child is the perfect, nervous little tool for the march to the Progressive's vaunted future and beyond!

And, another good comment by someone called Supertradmum

The cause of all this depression about human beings is the lack of knowledge or belief that we are made differently than the rest of creation. The West use to believe that men and women were made in the likeness of God. No more.

Now, we are made in the likeness of whoever political powers that be, or educational, or moneyed, or Marxist, or just plain stupid powers.

In the past several thousand years, we have seen the replacement of God as the centre of creation to humans being in that centre, to finally something odd called the 'environment'. Even the Medievals were not this daft to create a false god out of climate changes....or false ideals of demographics.

Annunciation by John Donne

John Donne (1572-1631)

Annunciation

Salvation to all that will is nigh;

That All, which always is all everywhere,

Which cannot sin, and yet all sins must bear,

Which cannot die, yet cannot choose but die,

Lo, faithful virgin, yields Himself to lie

In prison, in thy womb; and though He there

Can take no sin, nor thou give, yet He will wear,

Taken from thence, flesh, which death's force may try.

Ere by the spheres time was created, thou

Wast in His mind, who is thy Son and Brother;

Whom thou conceivst, conceived; yea thou art now

Thy Maker's maker, and thy Father's mother;

Thou hast light in dark, and shutst in little room,

Immensity cloistered in thy dear womb.

A David Jones Crucifixion: Monday in Holy Week

I am going to put a different Crucifixion scene on everyday this week for your meditations during Holy Week.

Here is the first one by David Jones. Many years ago, some of my David Jones prints were stolen. This one was my favorite that I had.

OOPSIE, that horrible global warming is at it again!

http://frontpagemag.com/2013/dgreenfield/uk-suffers-coldest-march-in-50-years-global-warming-to-blame/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=uk-suffers-coldest-march-in-50-years-global-warming-to-blame

Heartbreak

Today is a day of heartbreak. I have lost two friends. Not because of death, but because they did not want to hear the truth about something serious.

What they do not understand is how much I love them. They do not understand that truth is love.

They are on their way out of the Catholic Church, and all I can do is pray. I tried to speak with them about their "issues". I love both of them dearly, and this separation pains me greatly.

I have watched people in their adult years leave the Church for many reasons. Mostly, it is a problem of bad catechesis. These Catholics did not know their Faith in the first place, and so have made bad decisions.

Who is to blame? All adults are responsible for their own adult appropriation of the Faith.

I have written about this before, several times.

No one is to blame except ourselves if we lose the Faith. No priest, or teacher or parent is to blame.

Only ourselves, making choices which will lead us away from Rome....our souls and minds-- are where blame rests.

Heresies form one cause, especially Modernism.

Contraception is another cause.

Family pressures can be causes. Family issues can create causes.

Believing in false prophets or seers is another.

Active homosexuality is yet another cause of falling away.

Cynicism and hyper-criticism is still another cause. I call this being more Roman than Rome.

Satan does not care how or why you leave the Church.

He is thrilled that you choose to do so.

On the days of our deaths, we all stand alone before God. There are no excuses.

We face Truth, Who is a Person. We have seen Him many times before, but do not recognize Him. Another friend of mine told me that speaking the truth is why these people no longer like me.

I am not into popularity contests. I am into saving souls.

I weep and pray for my two friends. I hope they come back............

Update on the updates...

I am leaving it on line for similar reasons as Damian Thompson--here is his last note on this:

[Latest: The Diocese of Salford link to the interview is now dead. So I think we have our answer. The "interview" has almost certainly been concocted to appeal to a certain sort of conservative American. It's meticulously done, so it did take me a few minutes to be sure it was fake. I'm leaving it online because the hoax is interesting in itself. I mean, why bother?]

Another Update

Salford Diocese has taken down the article. The chancery needs to explain this. Until there is an explanation, I am leaving the information on the blog. It seems to be fake.

Free Republic has picked this up as well

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/3000243/posts

but

To: Religion Moderator

Please lock this thread. The original link has disappeared.
Thanks.

20 posted on 3/24/2013 4:24:29 PM by markomalley (Nothing emboldens the wicked so greatly as the lack of courage on the part of the good -- Leo XIII)

Update on interview transcript

Update from Damian Thompson: Here's why on reflection I think this interview has to be fake. The journalist who conducted it would have the most incredible world exclusive on his hands. It would have been out there on the day of Francis's election, not dribbled to an obscure English diocesan website with on identifying details.

Well, I wish it were true. Fantastic.

Where is the source of this article, which is on the Salford Diocesan Site

Sparrowlet ‏@passercula11m

@holysmoke Sounds fake. The English language is too smooth and conversational; too much talk of him as pope; not a wisp of spirituality.

Here is the source on line for the interview.

http://www.dioceseofsalford.org.uk/diocesan-news/70-latest-news/4005-bergoglio-makes-mincemeat-of-journalist

Wow and make a comment on Thompson's Site-This is interesting, but from where?

Damian Thompson

Damian Thompson is Editor of Telegraph Blogs and a columnist for the Daily Telegraph. He was once described by The Church Times as a "blood-crazed ferret". He is on Twitter as HolySmoke. His book The Fix: How addiction is taking over your world has just been published in paperback.

Did Pope Francis really say that socialism causes misery, and that America is heading towards a form of communism?

By Damian Thompson Religion Last updated: March 24th, 2013

1 Comment Comment on this article

The Catholic diocese of Salford has published the most extraordinary purported interview between Pope Francis and a Left-wing American journalist, supposedly conducted shortly before the conclave. I cannot, repeat cannot, vouch for its authenticity. If it's genuine, as the diocese says it is (while being unavailable to answer press inquiries), then it's a bombshell. But is it a fake? I just don't know, but can't resist reproducing it in order to gauge your reactions. If I had to put money on it? Not genuine. The cardinal's supposed demolition of the journalist is just too neat. But it is being circulated by a diocese of the Catholic Church, an official source, so here we go:

The following is a transcript of an interview between an atheist American journalist and then-Cardinal Bergolio [says the Salford website]. It is clear why the interview was never broadcast. In it, Cardinal Bergoglio makes mincemeat of the typical leftist interview techniques of so many people in the broadcast media.

CAMERA ON / BEGIN TRANSCRIPT

REPORTER: Welcome Cardinal.

BERGOGLIO: Thank you. Happy to speak with you.

REPORTER: Well, let me get into it directly. Last conclave, you were almost elected Pope. Can this happen again?

BERGOGLIO: What? That I will almost be the Pope, again?

REPORTER: No. Will you be the next Pope?

BERGOGLIO: Friend, I’m only jesting with you. I understand the question. I will not be the next Pope.

REPORTER: Why not?

BERGOGLIO: I chose not to. God has someone else in mind I’m certain.

REPORTER: But you would take the job if it were offered.

BERGOGLIO: I think not.

REPORTER: Why not.

BERGOGLIO: I believe I’m too embroiled in the secular fiasco. It is a spiritual job and I’m a soldier. Look at the nature of power. In Europe first and now in America, elected men have taken it upon themselves to indebt their people to create an atmosphere of dependency. And why? For their own selfish need to increase their own personal power. I’ve been a keen observer of the effect this has on the people, especially the poor. They are very good at creating poverty where there is no reason to explain it. My job is try to alleviate poverty and if that means to oppose the ‘cause then I will not be Pope.

REPORTER: But you are worried you would be a spend thrift pope?

BERGOGLIO: Friend. Where did you go to school?

REPORTER: La Salle College High School in Pennsylvania and….

BERGOGLIO: And after that?

REPORTER: College of the Holy Cross.

BERGOGLIO: They told me you were Catholic. Once elected the Pope is by virtue of the promise of Jesus to Peter, the Pope is preserved from the possibility of error. God would change any spend thrift politician into a responsible Pope. I’m just saying I’m not that man.

REPORTER: So what is your job?

BERGOGLIO: My job is to ask you, “why are men creating poverty?”

REPORTER: What do you mean?

BERGOGLIO: I mean that poverty is part of the natural condition and that is bad enough. But my task is to prevent the aggravation of this condition. The ideology that adds to the poverty must be denounced. I have and this is the reason I will not be Pope. I have a saying for myself, “No more poverty than God originally intended in the fall from Grace.”

REPORTER: Oh.

BERGOGLIO: It is a spiritual choice and I’m a political person. I’m sorry. I know you will make more money from this interview if I’m Pope. Or want to be Pope. But I’m sorry. I can’t help you. God has already chosen someone anyway. Right? You learned this in school?

REPORTER: Yes. Well… Where are you on the issues that matter most, issues about contraception, women priests?

BERGOGLIO: This might be a surprise to you, but I am Catholic. We are Catholic. It isn't an issue and for you to pretend that it is being debated goes against God.

REPORTER: If you were Pope then you would not change anything.

BERGOGLIO: Certainly God would direct the new Pope to have more compassion for these newly created poor. And if there is any social justice in the Church, the new Pope would have a stern word for the creators of the new situation.

REPORTER: But you are staunchly orthodox on the issues of abortion, contraception, and same-sex marriage.

BERGOGLIO: I am Catholic.

REPORTER: You were punished for opposed same-sex marriage in Argentina. You opposed free contraception and the government exiled you. What do you have to say about that?

BERGOGLIO: I am Catholic.

REPORTER: In the secular world, as you say, you follow the conservative line. You oppose, uh, same-sex marriages, very popular with young people. You are conservative on birth control. Won’t that be the doom of the Church, alienating young people who support reality based faith?

BERGOGLIO: Since God created the world, he also created reality. You seem to be arguing that a man can’t be Catholic in reality. Son, you are a Catholic?

REPORTER: Yes, of course. I meant no disrespect.

BERGOGLIO: You don’t have to worry about offending me.

REPORTER: Okay, good. Can a, uh, Pope even be elected if he is pro-choice or pro-love? I mean isn’t the election sort of fixed in favor of anti-abortion and anti-gay marriage?

BERGOGLIO: Yes, the election is fixed by God.

REPORTER: Very witty.

BERGOGLIO: Well, you did ask.

REPORTER: It is being reported in America that you are against marriage equality. Is that why you feel that you can’t be Pope?

BERGOGLIO: God chooses the Pope and God also made men and women different.

REPORTER: But you are …a conservative and oppose abortion!

BERGOGLIO: Friend the expression on your face gives you away.

REPORTER: I’m sorry, I’m just trying to do my job.

BERGOGLIO: And what job is that?

REPORTER: I’ve been sent to interview eight men in line for the papacy.

BERGOGLIO: And I guarantee you that they all oppose abortion. So…

REPORTER: But…

BERGOGLIO: So, you feel like you need to alienate the eight from the flock?

REPORTER: That isn’t it. How can the church attract young people when it is opposed to abortion and contraception?

BERGOGLIO: Young people are just as attracted to the truth as they are convenience and expediency. So we will call it a draw.

REPORTER: Doesn't the church need to modernize?

BERGOGLIO: Finally, I’ve met someone who will advocate publicly painting over the Sistine Chapel with one of the contemporary street artists. Are you sure you support this and in public?

REPORTER: What?

BERGOGLIO: Forgive me, I was rude.

REPORTER: Won’t the new pope, don't these cardinals realize what they've gotta do if they want to attract young people to the church?

BERGOGLIO: I am a cardinal.

REPORTER: Won’t the new pope, don't you and the other cardinals realize what they must do if they want to attract young people to the church?

BERGOGLIO: I’ve explained the mysteries of the atom to rural young people and also I’ve explained the Grace of God. And you know what? They can understand both perfectly well. Frankly, I have more trouble with adults understanding both.

REPORTER: But they have done focus groups; if you want to spread your message you can't have this position that's anti-gay marriage and anti-contraception.

BERGOGLIO: And you treat the church as a political institution.

REPORTER: So we were not gonna see any kind of change when it comes to things that matter like abortion or gay marriage?

BERGOGLIO: All eight of the men you will be talking to are Catholic.

REPORTER: Okay, I understand. Let’s talk about your controversial stand on poverty.

BERGOGLIO: You want it to be controversial?

REPORTER: But don’t you blame various governments around the world for poverty?

BERGOGLIO: Some. Yes.

REPORTER: But you refuse to blame corporations for their role.

BERGOGLIO: Okay, they also told me you have a degree in economics. No buyer, or seller either, enters into any exchange against his will. It is the nature of the economy. Man is frail, and he makes mistakes and sometimes is greedy and they enter into exchanges that don’t help them. Sometimes they become poor, but they made choices. There is nothing the Church can do except try to educate people to become good consumers. Chiefly, for me, it is an education solution on that side. And the Church has more schools around the globe than any other faith. I say teach the people to save their souls, and also teach them how not to become poor. And now not to allow the government to trick them into poverty.

REPORTER: And you blame government.

BERGOGLIO: No, I blame the self-serving politicians.

REPORTER: So your solution to poverty is to change the nature of politics?

BERGOGLIO: Please feel free to broadcast this; I don’t want to be pope. Friend, you are a socialist and your friends are socialists. And you are the reason for 70 years of misery in Russia and Europe now is seizing in pain from your policies. You believe in the redistribution of wealth and it makes entire populations poor. You want to nationalize everything and bring every human endeavor under your control. You destroy a man’s incentive to take care of his very own family, a crime against nature and nature’s God. You want social control over populations and incrementally you are making everything against the law. Together this ideology creates more poverty today than all the corporations you vilify have in the history of man.

REPORTER: I’ve never heard such from a Cardinal. I’m not sure if you are here to help yourself or disqualify yourself.

BERGOGLIO: Please air this interview. People being dominated by socialists need to know we don’t all have to be poor. Some poverty is part of our being cast out of the Garden of Eden. But look at the empire of dependency created by Hugo Chavez. Promising them, tricking them into worship of government and his very own person. Giving them fish but not allowing them to fish. If a fisherman does develop a talent today in Latin America; he is castigated and his catch stolen by the socialists. He stops…

REPORTER: You would be the first pope from the Americas.

BERGOGLIO: He stops fishing. I will not be pope, but yes I am from Argentina.

REPORTER: And you didn't want to be pope?

BERGOGLIO: God didn’t want me to be pope.

REPORTER: Perhaps he changed his mind.

BERGOGLIO: Ludicrous.

REPORTER: Okay, I’m sorry. I feel like we are getting off on the wrong path. I’m sorry.

BERGOGLIO: Yes, lets be productive.

REPORTER: You are a classic conservative Catholic theologian?

BERGOGLIO: Of course there's politics clearly in the Curia throughout the Vatican, but in terms of church teaching, it's not a political institution. It's religious.

REPORTER: I heard people, in fact, media people, "Is this cardinal, is he a liberal? Is he a conservative?"

BERGOGLIO: Tell them please, “He's a Catholic.” It's no more complicated than that. Catholicism is what it is. You don't have to believe it; you may not. You don't have to follow it; you may not go to Mass. But it's not up to you to modernize us.

REPORTER: You see no room for reform?

BERGOGLIO: It's not up to any religion, although some do this, 'cause they want the money. They want the membership. But the Catholic Church doesn't do it. It's not up to them to bend and shape and mold itself to accommodate the shrinking depravity of a worldwide culture. It's to provide the exact opposite. It's to provide a beacon out of depravity, socialism and sin, among other things.

REPORTER: If pope you would be bad news for the left.

BERGOGLIO: I won’t be pope. But I am opposed to abortion. I’m opposed to euthanasia. The pro-choice movement is a culture of death. I oppose the demonic same-sex marriage. I oppose gay adoption on the grounds that it is discriminatory to the child. I was exiled by the Cristina Kirchner government, but I hold no grudge. How is this bad news?

REPORTER: John Paul II rescued you?

BERGOGLIO: He made me the archbishop of Buenos Aires. Yes.

REPORTER: And so you feel like you owe the Right some sort of repayment?

BERGOGLIO: There are many values… and many types of people. Perhaps it is my interest in mathematics, but I’m the type of human who is interested most in the truth. God gave me a healthy love for the truth. Loyalty is only a virtue if in support of the truth or another important value.

REPORTER: Cristina Kirchner said you held a grudge.

BERGOGLIO: Funny I’ve never spoken her name. Not once. And it is a battle of ideas not a battle of two or more people. I’m only concerned with ideas.

REPORTER: She said you refused to speak up for civil rights violations.

BERGOGLIO: As a spiritual leader, I opposed cultural modernization, and so I became a political enemy. I understand politics as well as I do mathematics.

REPORTER: And the Jesuits, they were eager to cast you out, which they did.

BERGOGLIO: So you are implying that I’m a vengeful priest?

REPORTER: Do you feel that you need to erase the progress recently made in Latin America?

BERGOGLIO: I say “poverty”. You say “progress”.

REPORTER: Let's talk about poverty.

BERGOGLIO: Sure, there is voluntary poverty that is virtuous. Many understood the nobility of making themselves independent of the fleeting things of earth. They are distractions from our pursuit of the truth. I have no problem with this. I only oppose involuntary poverty.

REPORTER: That is what I thought you would say.

BERGOGLIO: Why?

REPORTER: Because you are a capitalist right?

BERGOGLIO: Yes, I think capital is needed to build a factory, a parochial school, or a church or hospital, all. Do you oppose factories or churches or hospitals?

REPORTER: Of course not but don’t you think the capital is sucked out of people’s hands by greedy business types to pay for these factories?

BERGOGLIO: No, I think people agree, through their economic choices, that some of their money goes to build these. Capital building should be voluntary. Only when the politician confiscates their wealth, to build government factories, government schools, government hospitals; only then do the people not agree. Money given voluntarily is legitimate to build with. Money coerced from the people is not legitimate to build with, because it isn’t given voluntarily.

REPORTER: You are opposed to all government?

BERGOGLIO: No of course not. But it isn’t the seat of wisdom in any society I’ve seen in my life. The best government was created by the Americans, in which they admitted that people are “endowed by their creator” and most of the administration of society was left to the relationship between God and man. However, slowly that has been eroded by the atheists on the left, who would replace man’s relationship with God with a new relationship with an opportunist like Hugo Chavez.

REPORTER: I just found it fascinating that you were willing to stand up to an entire government in Argentina. You where cast aside. Didn’t you care about your career?

BERGOGLIO: Yes, there are people who cave to worldly authority. Even priests.

REPORTER: But you didn’t?

BERGOGLIO: No, I changed nothing. How did I have the power to change anything in church teaching? My opinion? The democrats, seeking votes, only wanted me to change my opinion and legitimize their decadence. I did not, as evidenced by the fact that I was teaching high school math in small isolated town.

REPORTER: I’m sorry that happened to you.

BERGOGLIO: Why don’t you feel for others oppressed for their interest in freedom.

REPORTER: Freedom isn’t punished anywhere, is it?

BERGOGLIO: Certainly it is.

REPORTER: In Latin America?

BERGOGLIO: I’m afraid Latin America is lost. The people of the entire area are controlled by a bloc of militant “socialist” regimes in the region, most prominently Venezuela, Ecuador, Bolivia and Nicaragua. They have a gun pointed at their head. So their heart is now captured. Who will save them at this point?

REPORTER: So the game is over. Checkmate?

BERGOGLIO: Friend, I’ve been studying America this month, before the Pope chose to resign. You must not have fear at speaking the truth. It is for the salvation of souls and the recovery of Thomas Jefferson’s people. America must not fall to the new painted communism. Even the low information voters don’t want America to be sold into slavery. I pray they cast out the money changers in their government! What manner of government is there that condones sin? Abomination upon abomination–giving monies for the murder of children, giving monies for the murder of the elderly! You are an American. Your government, My child, has been infiltrated by men of sin.

REPORTER: These are pretty radical ideas.

BERGOGLIO: No. Perhaps reactionary. Radical means something different. But a very long time ago, Khrushchev warned, that we cannot expect Americans to fly from capitalism to communism, but we can assist their elected leaders in giving Americans small injections of socialism until they suddenly awake to find out they have Communism. This is what is happening now in an ancient bastion of freedom. How can America save Latin America when they are slaves to the government themselves?

REPORTER: I’m having a hard time digesting most of this.

BERGOGLIO: The truth can be painful. You look angry; do you want to stop or ask a question? … But you have created a new type of state, the so-called ‘welfare state.’ This has happened in order to respond to the needs of the politically created poor. However, intervening directly is depriving the original society of its responsibility. Families escape responsibility in the welfare state. And churches even escape responsibility. People stop giving to charity and see every poor person as the government’s problem. I am a Catholic priest and there are no poor for me to take care of, they are made permanently poor and the property of the politicians.

REPORTER: I’m not sure this interview is going to work.

BERGOGLIO: You asked and now you will listen, my son. The social assistance state leads to a loss of human energies and an inordinate increase of public agencies, which are dominated more by bureaucratic thinking than by real concern for helping people. Needs are best understood and satisfied by people who are closest to them who act as neighbors and parish members to those in need. It should be added that certain kinds of demands often call for a response which is not simply material but which is capable of perceiving the deeper human need. This is not to mention the welfare state’s excesses and abuses.

REPORTER: I think we are done.

BERGOGLIO: Wait. If I speak on the ordination of women, on celibacy, on divorce, will you air this interview and my message?

REPORTER: No, we are done.

BERGOGLIO: Partially what irritates me to the core is the media’s inability to look at anything without looking into the cause of the various problems. People are made poor so they will vote for the very candidates that made them poor.

REPORTER: Have a nice day and thanks for your time.

On the Hard Sayings of Jesus-Just a Few

Yesterday, I was listening carefully to a learned Scripture scholar, who is a priest, as he was discussing the hard sayings of Jesus with me. He noted that sometimes we would wish that Jesus had not said some things, but of course, as the Son of God, Christ was teaching us, warning us and loving us through these sayings. Christ meant it when He said hard things-he was not being poetical or metaphorical. Notice, Christ, the Son of God, knows there is a hell and that people are in it. I need to think of such things in my own life, so as not to become complacent.

Here are a few of those hard sayings. I omit the ones on the Eucharist, as this is list is for Catholics and we believe that the Bread and Wine is truly the Body and Blood of Christ. So, that is not a hard saying for us.

This list is all from the Douay Rheims translation:

John 17:12 While I was with them, I kept them in thy name. Those whom thou gavest me have I kept; and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition, that the scripture may be fulfilled.

Luke 17:2 It were better for him, that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should scandalize one of these little ones.

Matthew 23:33 You serpents, generation of vipers, how will you flee from the judgment of hell?

Matthew 5:22 But I say to you, that whosoever is angry with his brother, shall be in danger of the judgment. And whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council. And whosoever shall say, Thou Fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.